Baroness Morris of Yardley said that two pieces of evidence played on her mind: one case of an interpreter who was asked to travel from London to Cardiff and was not reimbursed for travel when the court case was cancelled overnight, and one case of an interpreter who stated that they must queue with the public before entering a hearing, and cannot join other court staff members before a trial.
On this point, the Baroness stated: “I think it’s appalling. I think it’s utterly appalling and sums up what is wrong in terms of culture. Just think what message that gives about their importance and their value and just think how that hampers their job. Because if they’re at the end of the queue, the time that they might have had to talk to the barrister or meet their client or to check some legal nicety is absolutely gone.”
“I looked at the ministers and [MoJ] staff who are in this debate today. There are four of them. I couldn’t spot the fourth, but at least two have got a day pass,” she added.
“I think it’s utterly appalling and sums up what is wrong in terms of culture. Just think what message that gives about their importance and their value and just think how that hampers their job.” — Baroness Morris of Yardley
Representing the MoJ, Baroness Levitt later replied that “Day passes are a nice idea, but they’re not really a thing in most of the courts at the moment.”
Lord Blencathra also called out the “innate judicial arrogance we see in the treatment of interpreters and who are regarded as of little consequence in the courts,” adding that “no one is more important than the interpreters and they should be given the respect and facilities they need like any of the lawyers and not be treated like a tea lady.”
Remote Interpreting and Fulfillment
Lord Blencathra called upon the MoJ to carry out a technical assessment of the courts, and that this assessment should determine whether an interpreter can join hearings remotely, rather than at the judge’s discretion.
To this, Baroness Levitt at the MoJ later replied that audiovisual equipment can be “clunky” and does not “always work well”, adding that “as a [former] judge, […] there are some situations in which […] remote interpretation literally doubles the length of the hearing.”
Lord Willis of Knaresborough and Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames each raised concerns about an increasing number of trial postponements due to a lack of interpreters, “over 600” in the first nine months of 2024, and a “48% increase” in the number of complaints for the public service.
Baroness Levitt clarified that in 2024, “only 0.7% of criminal trials were ineffective due to the absence of an interpreter […] out of 115,000 listed trials. In the context of over 200,000 booking requests, the on-contract fulfillment rate is currently 97% with the use of off contract interpreters closing the gap to 99.3%.”
Interpreter Remuneration
On the subject of interpreter remuneration, Baroness Coussins, who is also Honorary President at the Chartered Institute of Linguists (CIOL), stated that interpreters’ starting pay is just “GBP 20 an hour, rising to a ‘magnificent’ GBP 26 per hour for complex cases,” leading to “disheartened, disillusioned, exhausted qualified interpreters reluctantly leaving the public sector every month because they can’t afford to live with in the terms and conditions on offer.”
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To this point, Baroness Levitt stated that “whilst we respect the sentiment behind the committee’s concerns about the level of remuneration and the calls for minimum pay rates, we don’t agree that mandating pay levels is the right approach. We do believe that suppliers are best placed to set the rates that attract skilled professionals.”
She added, “We, as the commissioning body, must ensure that these rates are fair and deliver value for money for the public,” further citing recent policies to pay a minimum two-hour fee, which has reportedly led to an increase in interpreter fulfilment rates.
Adoption of AI
Notably, half of the Lords called upon the MoJ to investigate the implementation of AI to support the demand for court interpreting services. Lord Burnett of Maldon, who is also Chief Justice of the Astana International Financial Court, stated that “many courts around the world” are “using translation technology software” for “translation and interpretation purposes, and others are thinking of introducing it imminently.”
He gave advice to the MoJ, saying: “I would urge the government to look closely at what is going on around the world and make plans urgently to keep up. And when they do, can I suggest in the light of bitter experience of the court reform program, that they buy products off the shelf and do not seek to build them from scratch or indulge in over engineering.”
On that point, Lord Mott later called upon the MoJ to “engage with industry to ensure they are able to make the most of AI in this area,” adding that “we need to ensure the momentum is sustained” following “the memorandum of understanding between the UK and OpenAI” signed in July, and “ongoing work to boost automation and efficiency across numerous departments with partners like Microsoft and UiPath.”
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To that end, Lord Mott also called for the MoJ to “develop exemplar courts in which they can pilot both better deployment of remote interpretation and AI to support the delivery, interpretation and translation services,” adding that “AI is on the cusp of being suitable for deployment in public services.”
Responding to these comments, Baroness Levitt stated that the MoJ is “absolutely not dismissive about the potential for artificial intelligence and the opportunities that it can bring,” adding that it is “taking a proactive approach to exploring AI’s role in interpreting services. […] Our new contracts require suppliers to engage with us on developing AI capabilities in order to ensure that we remain at the forefront of innovation.”
Baroness Levitt also updated the Lords on the AI proof of concept in prisons, which provided interpretation and line-by-line transcripts in around 100 languages. “That pilot concluded in August and evaluation is underway with independent academic research from Lancaster University to complement the pilot’s efforts.”
Baroness Levitt referenced a separate, 15-month proof of concept at Westminster Magistrates Court in November 2021, which tested speech-to-text for extradition case judgments. She said, “The accuracy was 94%, which was considered too low for extended testing.”
She added that “extensive work on AI integration has already begun across the whole of the MoJ and we are going to identify whether possibilities are there for this area and we will update the committee in relation to it.”
Levitt concluded that the MoJ is “proud of the progress we’ve already made, but we are determined to deliver further practical improvements through the new contracts. This includes clearer data, higher standards, stronger assurance and a service that treats the interpreters and those who rely upon it with the respect they deserve.”
In her closing remarks, Baroness Morris of Yardley recognized the complexity of providing this public service, and said: “There is still this big contract that is almost like a brick wall in front of us, and to be honest, I remain non-confident that some of the real fundamental improvements will be made until we see the [new] contract”, adding “I live in hope as far as that’s concerned.”
